Did experience Gain get changed in recent patch?

Since updating to 2.0.13 I noticed one very big change not mentioned in the patch notes. The experience gained has been changed quite drastically. my lv1 Creature gains the exact same amount of experience as my lv230 or my lv1 Nether gains the exact same as my lv120 with no diamond enchants.

It use to be scaled that a lower level like lv1 would gain a very large amount and get a huge boost but as it leveled it scaled down and it seemed like this was good because it helped to bring my monsters within a couple levels of eachother. But now my low level creatures no longer gain more and thus they are well behind in levels than my other creatures for all time lol.

Was this change intentional? The one thing however is it has made diamond enchants WAY more needed as I made 3 nethers without diamond and well now the level WAY slower than it use to be lol

I actually meant to document this change, not sure what happened to it but here’s what happened:

Experience gains for normal creatures is unchanged. The only difference now is that Nether Creatures do not receive the “mentor bonus” from being in a party with higher level creatures. While this mentor bonus is nice to help you level up your creatures, it also made the diamond enchantment extremely negligible, hence the change.

Sorry for any confusion!

AH gotcha! And yeah honestly this change did make diamond enchants WAY more viable and honestly a must lol. My one nether gets about 3.5x more exp than my others with no diamond enchants. For sure will be adding diamond on future nethers :slight_smile:

Also this makes something else WAY more useful that I now plan to use. The diamond paragon ability :slight_smile:

This definitely makes diamond enchants more viable… though for me it just means I’m grinding a TON more; since I’d rather have stats. Patience is a virtue, I suppose, even if it means mind numbing grinding to get tiny results versus being forced to use your gems on xp saves just to stay sane…

On an imbued orb and get lucky to get lots of activations, trust me your going to want to do diamond enchants because its diminishing returns for each stacked activation and well diamond is a HUGE boost. My nether with diamond is already over lv 150 while the one with no diamond is grinding his butt off at lv 70. Using 300% exp boost diamond is getting like 8 million exp and non diamond barely 2 million.

You don’t lose out on to much stats for a few diamond gems and it makes a world difference now.

There is still no point in using diamond enchants. With lower nether level enemy level will be lower as well and even with diminishing returns the no diamond nether will be more powerful. If you desire nethers of similar power you can use Diamond Attunement and royality XP boosts. Nethers will gravitate towards your characters level and stop being affected by Diamond Attunement so your lower level nethers can catch up.

Oh right ofcourse. diamond attunement alone will greatly help in non diamond enchanted nethers gain much more until it reaches character level. I do personally enjoy a 100% stat nether as they grow much stronger allowing to go further into realms

Consider this:

If you give one nether 0 diamonds and they have standard growth rate vs another nether that DOES have diamonds, the one without diamonds will undoubtedly be stronger at a given level than the diamond nether will be.

HOWEVER, if you’re leveling 3x as fast with the diamond using nether, at any given time you’ll be roughly 3x farther in depth as your nether’s advantage over normal monsters grows with their increased stat growth. The nether with no diamonds will never catch up to the diamond nether. The diamond nether will always be stronger/able to dive farther per hour invested in leveling it.

Given no apparent level caps, depth/time is the real consideration here!

However, if there is a hidden level cap, the x3 xp nether would cap out and the other would be able to catch up.

Plus, there are diminishing returns on repeat activations of the same type of gem.

You will not be 3x farther in depths, rather the opposite. Enemies scale with your creature level meaning a level 150 nether will fight enemies with way higher level than a no diamond nether at the same depth. Since the no diamond nether is relatively stronger at a certain level, you will be able to dive deeper with it than its diamond counterpart.

Kejal beat me to the punch! A diamond nether gets higher levels, which bring harder enemies, not deeper realms. The real use where I will say that a diamond nether shines is for the creature that gives xp bonuses to creatures of a lower level (totally forgot its name). I’d stack him to max diamonds regardless of the diminishing returns as his purpose is to train up your teams for the big fights. This guy would be amazing and would let you grow up news teams quickly, which makes you more inclined to try out different teams and level many creatures that you otherwise might not have.

I thought the Diamond Paragon awarded an experience bonus to creatures below your mage’s level, and only to normal creatures and not nether creatures. Is this true?

Oh, you may be correct. Lol. That’s unfortunate.

You guys aren’t following what I’m saying!

The difference between a nether monster is in the stats. If you put 5 gems into xp, they’ll level much faster for slightly lower stats, but still have much higher stats than normal monsters for their level.

As your nether levels up, you can fight increasingly further in depth because this stat gap between the nether and normal monsters grows.

Diamonds are totally worth if you consider time/depth.

[quote=“winsomniak, post:13, topic:709”]You guys aren’t following what I’m saying!

The difference between a nether monster is in the stats. If you put 5 gems into xp, they’ll level much faster for slightly lower stats, but still have much higher stats than normal monsters for their level.

As your nether levels up, you can fight increasingly further in depth because this stat gap between the nether and normal monsters grows.

Diamonds are totally worth if you consider time/depth.[/quote]

I completely agree.

Consider the way the game scales in difficulty. Yes, you could forgo diamond enchantments, that’s a completely viable strategy. But then it would take longer for you to bridge the gap between the creatures and your enemies, and all the time you’re wasting leveling up your new creature could be better spent farming on higher realm levels and obtaining better items.

You might argue that the extra stats you’d obtain from non-diamond enchantments would make up for this loss of speed, but this is not necessarily the case; remember that orb activations are subject to diminishing returns.

Okay, let me try again with a hopefully more clear explanation of why everyone should use diamonds!

Nether One: Super BA all stats monster (BOB)
Nether Two: BA mostly stats monster (TIM) with x3 xp

TIM will level roughly 3 times faster, this much I think we can agree on. BOB will have more stats at any given creature level and thus be able to delve deeper for any given creature level. Everyone on the same page? At monster level 100, BOB can go deeper than TIM can.

Now, without a level cap, the only “real” concern SHOULD be how deep into the levels we can get in a given timeframe. Both nether monsters (unlike regular monsters) will gain a stat advantage over normal monsters of their level every time they level up. This advantage will grow and grow, allowing you to delve deeper as your monsters increasingly gain levels.

While BOB will be able to delve deeper as a level 100 than TIM, TIM isn’t going to be level 100, hes going to be level 300ish. With that additional 200 levels, the gap between TIM’s stats and normal monsters of his level will be greater than the gap between BOB’s stats and normal monsters.

Bottom line? If in 1 day of play BOB is level 100 and TIM is level 300, TIM will be able to delve deeper than BOB.

EDIT: Also consider that pills can be used when you reach deeper levels to give your nether more stats

My nether creatures get 3x the xp my normal ones get (nethers are lower level than my mage) so the ability works for nethers as well.

Btw for those that get 3-3.5 times the xp on their nethers after using diamond activations, how many activations / gems does that equal?

I understand your point, but you are still wrong. Even if TIM earns three times the XP of BOB its level will not be 3 times higher, only its total XP. XP needed for next level increases, starting with 0, 1000, 2000, 3000…

Here is a level comparison between TIM and BOB. It shows the level of TIM(right) when BOB gets to a specific level (left):
2 - 3
3 - 4
4 - 5
5 - 7
6 - 8
7 - 9
8 - 11
9 - 13
10 - 14
11 - 15
12 - 16
13 - 18
14 - 19
From the data I would say that TIM has about a 33% increased level compared to BOB but will also fight enemies that are 33% higher level.

In addition the gap between a nether and a normal creature will not increase in relative terms. If your nether’s stat are three times higher than that of a normal creature at level 1 they will be three times higher when both creatures are level 100. The absolute gap will increase. What does that mean for a certain realm level?

Lets say BOB is 25% more powerful than TIM at level 1 (which I consider low if TIM really earns XP at 300% rate) and TIM has three times the power of a normal creature (putting BOB at 3.75 times). Lets say the base creature for TIM and BOB is a Brownie Brute with 40 attack. Their attack at any point in time would be
TIM: 1.33LevelBOB0.2340 + 340 (1.33=level advantage of TIM, 0.2=factor of stat gain per level, 340=TIM’s power at level 1)
BOB: LevelBOB0.23.7540+3.7540
Simplified:
TIM: 31,92LevelBOB + 120
BOB: 30
LevelBOB + 150

So you are right that TIM will become more powerful than BOB at a certain point (past level 15). However lets have a look at the enemies they are fighting.

I made a little test run with a group of level 1 creatures in realm level 10 to determine how realm level affects the level difference between player creatures and enemy creatures. From what I can tell (and Zack can correct me if I am wrong) it appears to be an absolute level difference of about 24 level meaning in realm 10 an enemy creature has about 4.8*base more stat compared to a player creature. An enemy Brownie Brute would have 192 more attack than a player’s.

When BOB is level 100 he will be fighting level 124 enemies in realm level 10 while TIM is level 133 and will be fighting level 157 enemies.
TIM will have 3312 attack, an enemy Brownie would have 1296 attack
BOB will have 3150 attack, an enemy Brownie would have 1032 attack

TIM would have 2016 more attack than the enemy or 255%
BOB would have 2118 more attack than the enemy or 305%

BOB is more powerful than his opponent both in relative and absolute terms and will be able to go deeper!

Im pretty sure I read somewhere that at realm level 1, enemies are 2 or 3 levels below your creatures, and for every realm you go up enemy levels increase by 1.

So at realm level 10, enemies are 7-8 levels higher than your creatures.

No they are not. Take a team of level 1 creatures to realm 10 and cast Identify creature on the enemy. Enemies will be between level 24 and 26.

Hey Kejal, great maths! However, it would be helpful for me and other players if you could show where you’re getting your numbers as well as which portions you’ve actually tested. I haven’t finished my nether creatures yet so my feedback is all theoretical.

Also if we’re going to use REAL math rather than estimating (as I did with 3x xp) we should draw data from the game (as you have done in part) and consider all variables.

Additional variables to consider that neither of us has mentioned:

[ul][li]Nether orbs, particularly imbued nether orbs have more activation slots and gem slots. Activations have diminishing returns. I don’t know the exact maths on these but 1 or 2 activations with diamond and a handful of gems goes a LONG way for xp gain, and barely impacts stats.[/li]
[li]XP needed may be a fibonacci like sequence, but enemies and duties also reward more xp as you fight higher level stuff. Leveling feels nearly linear for me in the amount of time required per level.[/li]
[li]Further into the game, you can get pills to increase a monster’s base stats. I’m not sure as i haven’t gotten them yet, but I don’t think you can get XP pills. Any small difference in stats between a nether with some diamonds and a nether without is likely easy to fix with pills.[/li]
[li]Diamond monster gives 200% more xp if you’re under the player level, so this could be exploited to some extent to avoid using diamonds[/li]
[li]Artifacts can give +monster xp. I’m not sure if this is additive or multiplicative with the diamond activations[/li]
[li]Panda tokens can level up your creatures[/li][/ul]