Did experience Gain get changed in recent patch?

Guess I must have dream I read it or something then, lol. ::slight_smile:

It might not be the biggest impact though, but since TIM will be higher level than BOB, wont that also make him / his team recieve more xp from fighting higher leveled enemies as well?

I read that too respwner, and yes you get more xp as you progress.

Yes a group with TIM will get more XP, but not as much as you might think. It is practically impossible for a nether to match the leveling speed of a normal creature meaning a team of normals will get more XP than a group with TIM or BOB IF they can beat the same enemies. Level for non nethers is not really important since they will not gain stats faster than their counterparts. The only real advantage of fighting higher level enemy is the increase in resource gain.

As for what I know and do not know:
Here are what I know for facts:

  • any creature gains 20% base stat per level (this is the reason relative distance between stats remain the same)
  • the amount of XP needed per level for normal and nether creatures

What I have tested and formed a theory about:

  • realm level give enemies a specific level advantage
    -> I took a group of level 1 creatures to level 10, cast identify on all enemies (average level 25.17), killed all enemies, creatures leveled to 9 reset the realm. Repeated the process with enemy level of 32.67. Leve 12 gave 35.33 level enenmies, 17 gave 41

What I do not know and have not tested:

  • the bonus diamond gems give for XP

As for the variables:
Pills are very rare and you should not count on them to make up the difference in stats. In my current game (started after the new loot system was reduced) I am level 1729 in realm 415 and even as a death mage have found only 21 pills total.

Artifacts give a percentage bonus to XP. It is multiplicative with Diamond Attunement and Royalty perks but I do not know whether it is multiplicative in its own category (whether 6 artifacts with 20% give 120% more XP or 299%)

Panda tokens (love the name) would benefit BOB more than TIM because it closes the percentage gap between the two.

Once I get 2 white orbs with same activations I will make a real TIM and BOB to test the impact of diamond gems.

Alright as promised I tested the effect of diamond gems:

[size=12pt]Setup: [/size]
2 Imbued Green Nether Orbs with 12 activations and 32 gems, 2 Brim Smith cores
TIM’s Orb:
2x5 Topaz
2x5 Ruby
3x7 Diamond
5x15 Emerald

BOB’s Orb:
2x5 Topaz
2x5 Ruby
8x22 Emerald

The resulting stats where:
TIM:
49 Health
179 Attack
36 Speed
39 Luck
BOB:
49 Health
302 Attack
36 Speed
39 Luck

[size=12pt]Execution:[/size]
I took TIM and BOB with a Topaz Paragorn and some other creatures to realm level 20 and started killing enemies with spells. Here are the results:
First fight:
BOB 56311 XP -> Level 8
TIM 198215 XP -> Level 12
TIM got 3.52 times the experience of BOB. This factor remains constant for all fights meaning his 3x7 diamonds resulted in 352% XP gain compared to BOB.

Duty Completed (17047 XP)
BOB -> Level 9
TIM Level 12

Second Fight:
BOB 58060 XP -> Level 11
TIM 204372 XP -> Level 15

Third Fight:
BOB 56527 XP -> Level 12
TIM 198976 XP -> Level 17

Fourth Fight:
BOB 57687 XP -> Level 13
TIM 203059 XP -> Level 18

[size=12pt]Conclusion:[/size]
Will TIM at any point have a higher attack than BOB?

When BOB is level 20, TIM will be level 29 (data taken from my XP spreadsheet)
TIM’s attack = 1790.229+179 = 1218
BOB’s attack = 3020.220+302 = 1510
BOB has 292 more attack than TIM.

When BOB is level 80, TIM will be level 121
TIM’s attack = 1790.2121+179 = 4511
BOB’s attack = 3020.280+302 = 5134
BOB has 623 more attack than TIM.

When BOB is level 120, TIM will be level 181
TIM’s attack = 1790.2181+179 = 6659
BOB’s attack = 3020.2120+302 = 7550
BOB has 891 more attack than TIM.

When BOB is level 180, TIM will be level 273
TIM’s attack = 1790.2273+179 = 9953
BOB’s attack = 3020.2180+302 = 11174
BOB has 1221 more attack than TIM.

As you can see, BOB will always have more attack than TIM. You might argue that TIM has more speed, luck and health at any point but BOB could trade in some attack to increase these stats while still staying ahead of TIM. I would argue that a group with BOB can dive deeper even with his current lack in health, speed and luck compared to TIM meaning his team will get more XP than TIM’s team because enemy level based on floor depth increases quite fast (+24 levels for realm 10, +109 levels for realm 20).

Kejal: That was an excellent experiment, thank you so much for sharing that data.

Based on your data, it appears that Diamond Enchantments would need to grant more experience per gem in order to be competitive with stat-increasing enchantments?

In your experiment, TIM gained 3.52 times as much experience as BOB. Do you know what experience multiplier TIM would need from his 3x7 Diamonds in order to be competitive with BOB? (I don’t know how much XP is required for each creature level, and I think that information is required to answer the question.)

Yeah nice work Kejal, it appears that to be relevant, the xp system would need to be more linear. 3.5x xp bringing tim to only 50% higher level is a tad insane. Especially considering the sources of “free” level ups and xp skulls in the chaos realm.

That said, it would be a little different if you had a full party of nethers, 6 bobs or 6 tims, as the xp would scale with bob or tim respectively rather than your normal monster’s levels. It seems to me that the best source of higher xp is including a normal monster in the party.

This is probably a silly question (I just started when the game launched on Steam, so I don’t have 6 Nether creatures yet), but is it common for players to run teams of 6 Nether creatures late-game?

I only managed to make one, Noetherian, but the speed at which you can create them increases as your options and power grows, so its definitely possible. I’m pretty new myself maybe some others will chime in about this.

It actually doesn’t matter all that much since end game, abilities and status effects and % based stuff are king. Stats don’t matter nearly as much as early on.

Well, unless you go with a % max hp damage build (which is being reworked soon) stats do matter alot. Any atk / spd / hp build needs tons of that stat to do damage.

It is true, that % abilities beat stats at higher level. Though I believe in being prepared for the eventual nerf to % abilities and create nethers accordingly.
I currently have 15 nethers (including TIM and BOB). In my current party are 5 demons and a normal creature so yeah, eventually you will have a full party of nethers.

As for the question how high the XP multiplier must be for BOB and TIM to have similar attack, it is hard to figure out since I do not know the mathematical formula to tell TIM’s level based on BOB’s. I use a spreadsheet with total XP at any given level and check by hand what level TIM would be based on BOB’s total XP but this is tedious.

Best nether: https://forums.thylacinestudios.com/t/734

Maybe he will be useful to test xp growth later or something. Haha

Yeah, that one seemed like such a punch in the face. :frowning:
Im just going to wait untill that bug is fixed before I use my imbued nether orb on anything.