[Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!

Ive actually found calamity to be okay to match up against. It gives a prioritytarget for you to slow down / stun, and it falls off heavily in later realms aswell (My calamity wearing attackstacked Fallen Carnage with 40k attack does exactly nothing for me at realm 150).

Calamity is pretty easy to deal with if there is one enemy with it, but if two appear at once, things get dicey. Will it proc if you kill them both with splash, at least?

Hammer Lord, his ability is mostly useless since you might as well just use 1 slot on your damage dealers artifacts to get the rare enchant for proficiency.

One improvement is to make it so he gives the buff to all allies all the time, instead of only to one random on attack. (still bad)
Another way is to instead, every time he attacks, he gives a “stack” of proficiency to himself and the ally to his left (or right, or same column, so you can place him correctly). Makes it more reliable and gives it more potential punch. ^^

[quote=“Respwner, post:23, topic:846”]Buff:
Hammer Lord, his ability is mostly useless since you might as well just use 1 slot on your damage dealers artifacts to get the rare enchant for proficiency.

One improvement is to make it so he gives the buff to all allies all the time, instead of only to one random on attack. (still bad)
Another way is to instead, every time he attacks, he gives a “stack” of proficiency to himself and the ally to his left (or right, or same column, so you can place him correctly). Makes it more reliable and gives it more potential punch. ^^[/quote]

Agreed. I used the smiths a ton, and when the Hammer Lord popped up as the final smith in the monster tiers, I was pretty excited until I read his ability. He’s definitely one of the weaker choices, sadly.

I think he is only weak because Proficient enchant is a rare enchant and other legendary buffs are applied to everyone (splash, thrust, cleave). As Respwner said, it should buff the entire team (like Secular Haze). As a rule of thunb I think all legendary enchants should have a build up like Wolf Army and War Forged while rare enchants are provided to the whole team like Secular Haze.

Proficient itself is actually really good. When you have at least two enchants of either attack, luck or defense, Proficient as a third is at least equal value to a third stat enchant (or already better if your primary matches those enchants). I use it on all my stat artifacts.

Brought up in the shoutbox by a few people, putting it here so it’s not forgotten…

Pegasus could probably stand to get a nerf. Two things here:

  1. Pegasus with Cradle to the Grave is another “perfect defense”. In fact, it makes everything basically impossible to kill without indirect damage or a Bone Reaper.

  2. Pegasus in general seems to be a better version of Granite Golems and Wall Giants. Yeah, it only intercepts on a killing blow…but that’s usually the only attack that really matters. The Pegasus is the last of the “passive tanks” that can flawlessly tank without needing to provoke or defend, and it does it’s job a lot better than the alternatives.

A few different suggested nerfs would involve either the Pegasus’ only being able to use its ability on provoke/defend, or giving it only a chance to intercede on a killing blow instead of it being guaranteed. Both would also break the abusive Cradle interaction.

I guess you could say that I’m late for the party. But I’m a Wizard, and Wizards are never late.


Currently it seems like there’s a decent balance going on between the Priest, Warlock, Necromancer and Druid classes. The Priest adds a ton of survivability to a team, although nobody ever uses the healing focused perks, Warlocks promote the ever-popular 1-turn-kill teams and spalsh builds and Druids save you the artifact slots usually spent on Topaz Paragons - which is pretty much considered one of the most useful creatures currently in the game - and the Necromancer gives you a great anti-magic ability and a boost to your chance to find the games most powerful items; pills.

Admittedly the Necromancer feels a bit behind the other 3 classes, but not by alot.

The Wizard, however, makes me… sad.

The problem with the Wizard class seems to be a three headed monster; the perks aren’t particularly amazing, the class demand that you focus on spellcasting and spellcasting just isn’t particularly benificial as of now and finally the spell-pool for Sorcery is slightly lackluster. Now, naturally the upcomming changes to the spellcasting system are going to provide a substastual buff to the Wizard (I hope), but I’m going to be commenting on the class as-is.

The primary benefits of the Wizard class is the perk Sorcery (25% chance to not consume a charge when casting a spell) aswell as Mania (50% of your Power Balance is added to your Spell Power) and finally the 25(?)% class bonus to spells of the appropriate school of magic; in this case that’d be sorcery. The problem is that Sorcery is outshined massively by the Disciple Occultist’s Ephiphany ability (75%! chance on spell cast to not consume charges or mana), which effectively beats Sorcery by 50% in effectiveness, aswell as Brilliance with 25%, and that even if you max out Sorcery and use Disciple Occultists you’re still going to be suffering horrible RNG and eventually run out of spells; effectively leaving you out of options as your team AND your class is built around magic.

Likewise there’s the issue that while Mania does indeed increase your Spell Power, it honestly dosen’t increase it by that much all things considered. You’re going to have to maxx out two 25 point traits to gain the full benefit of it, it quickly gets outscaled on the deeper floors and unlike just plain Spell Power bonuses it dosen’t turn into percentage scaling in the late game. Another issue is that the only class in the game that actively cares about Spell Power dosen’t actually have access to that many spells within its class school of Magic which take advantage of Spell Power.

I suggest buffing Sorcery and Brilliance to 50-75% effectiveness, aswell as changing Dilligence (reduces Power Balance costs for using Shrines) into something along the lines of; You have a higher chance to find stronger Spell Scrolls. Maybe add a number of spells currently only avaniable through Power Spells to Bynine, namely the Scourge ones. All to promote consitency within the class.

Likewise I recommend moving the majority of “Mind”/“Luck” spells (Vertigo, Confusion, Mindstorm etc) currently in the Sorcery school to Chaos in return for moving the “Fire” spells (Firebolt, Fireball, Immolation Aura etc) to Sorcery. This would add more Spell Power spells to Sorcery, add more spells with a “chaotic” feel to Chaos and support the fire/burn theme found within Sorcery’s creature-base. Sure, the Chaos Mage robes are reffered to as the “Pyromancer’s Robes” by the game. But I honestly can’t recall a single instance of anybody reffering to it as such; it’s always Warlock, Sorcerer or Chaos Mage.

Another major issue with the magic system in its current form is that it often only takes your opponent 1(!) spell to completely demolish your team. Hence the prevelance of Nightmare Mummies and Topaz Paragons; to prevent enemy spellcasting. I suggest adding a number of anti-magic spells to the game in order to help promote spell casting and diversity in creature teams. For instance:

Pandimonium Shell: Chaos: The Pandimonium King is immune to Spell Damage, so…
Both yours and your opponents creatures are immune to spell damage.

Counterspell: Sorcery: Would probally make more sense as a Death Spell as Death has all the raw anti-magic.
Your opponents next spell fizzles.

Muffle: Death: Ghostly hand covering somebody’s mouth?
Silences target creature. This spell dosen’t consume a turn.

Utter Silence: Banshee wail, mayhaps?
Silences all enemy creatures for X turns.

And the list goes on. Another idea would be to give players some other way of increasing their Spell Power. Say, by finding rare staves and whatnot in the Realms that can be equibbed (consumed) by the player for a permanent, and somewhat considerable, Spell Power boost - 25/50/100?

Also, while we’re at it. Dragon Soldier is a horrible early game creature, as it actively works against the extraction process and I can’t help but feel like it would unecesarrily confuse new players.


I think I’ve already dipped my toes in here, seeing how you can’t talk Wizards without talking magic, and all. But I think it bears mentioning that a lot of spells could do with getting moved to a different school, for flavour reasons. And I really do think that anti-magic would go a long way to improve the game as it currently is. Especially if you can buy some of the more basic anti-magic at Bynine’s.

Also, I still want a Magic Missile spell. Damnit. ;D


I honestly don’t think that hard-counters are bad design. In fact, they’re quite the opposite. They serve as hard-counters to certain player strategies and add options to team building. Mutant Swampdweller lets Poison/Burn teams avoid getting insta-gipped by Mecurial Slimes and Volcanic Efreeti, Bone Reapers are amazing fits to aggressive teams if you can spare the slot, Nightmare Mummies-…

Well, Nightmare Mummies fall into an odd category. Thing is that its honestly not that powerful an effect, at all. Losing your spellcasting powers is a huge price to pay in order to combat enemy spellcasting. No, the problem with the Nightmare Mummy, aswell as the Topaz Paragon, is that it highlights what is probally the games two greatest weaknesses as of now; the way level scalling is handled and the magic system.

Sacrificing your spellcasting powers just isn’t that high a price to pay if it helps you avoid getting insta-gipped by random AoE spells and all the other anti-magic creatures still give your opponent a decent chance to get that one cast of Planets, Snowfall or Mindstorm through; potentially killing you right away. And the prevelance of the Mummy shows this.

Had Siralim been a multiplayer game I’d have decried the Nightmare Mummy the second I saw it. In fact, I did just that during the 2.0 beta.

Some creatures that I feel deserve a bit of a do-over would be:

Minotaurs: For reasons stated by everybody else and their dog.

Creatures that inflict debuffs on hit - Maniacal Ghoul, Red Storm, Pit Worm Tunneler and so on: The vast majority of these guys are, for a lack of a better word; boring. And they don’t really see play, ever. The exceptions to the rule seems to be creatures that inflict debuffs that other creatures work on. Namely Poison, Infection, Disease, Burn, Weak and Sleep. Maybe changing some of these creatures to interact in similar manners would make sense, some race support mayhaps? After all, people have made it perfectly clear that they love theme builds.

The Witch Doctors: Not so much a nerf or buff. I just don’t get why they’re not called Pygmy’s instead. 8)

Harpy Torturer: I’m one of those lamewards who love build-around-me creatures and I really want to like this one, but she’s just too restrictive and unreliable. Maybe increase the range of debuffs that she’s into to include Blind/Cripple/Stun/Stagger/whatever would give her more of a spotlight? Come to think of it, harpies in general don’t see that much play.

Non-Hound, non-Lich King, perma-pet creatures - Mutant Seacrawler, Mauler Fiend, Pit Guard etc: The minion buffs have proven themselves to be somewhat lackluster and sacrificing one ability slot just to gain one of them permanently isn’t a particularly good deal.

Blood Reaper: Yeah, he’s still not very good. The idea is cool, in theory, but it just dosen’t seem to work out in practice.

Occultist Spellbinder: Clearly this creature would be better off if it switched its sprite with that of Occultist Disciple. No, I’m not just saying that because the Disciple has my favorite ability and the Spellbinder my favorite sprite. Shame on you for even suggesting it!

One thing I will say is that Chaos still has a strong thematic reason to be fire-focused. Chaos creatures include Devils and other minions of hell, and fire just works with that theme. IMO, I’d rather see Slimes and Efreets switch places and have Efreets turn Chaos and Slimes turn Sorcery, since that seems to make a lot more sense to me. And Sorcery, being the domain of general magic itself, seems a lot more likely to have mind-influencing effects than what we see in Chaos’ creature base.

Of course, this all ties into two relatively minor problems I have with the game…for one, the reasons for certain creatures being certain alignments isn’t made clear at all (Why are Minotaurs Sorcery, of all things? WTF is a Pit Wraith and why is it Life?) And for two, there’s no reason to really theme and specialize a party into one or two alignments. But those aren’t really balance complaints, just oddities with the game itself.