Gene Strength via Breeding

Hello Zack,

Gene Strength right now yields far too much per breeding session. Note: I have not played Ver. 0.5.0, but the change to add a cap of 200% of mage level still yields an inordinate amount of Gene Strength. At an even a modest lv 200 Mage, per-breed sessions are going to yield +400 GS.

Additionally, the second creature in the breeding doesn’t really seem to matter.

Proposed formula:
lv 1- 200: floor(Lv Parent A / 10) + floor(Lv Parent B / 10) + GS A + GS B
lv 200 - 500: the above + floor((lv Parent A - 200)/25) + floor((lv Parent B - 200)/25) + GS A + GS B
etc… etc…

Thus a creature breeding at lv 100 with a partner lv 100 would yield +20 GS.
A creature breeding lv 400 with a partner at lv 400 would yield +36 GS.

This results in an always equal or improved new creature and allows for contributions by both parents. As your creatures scale up in level, it becomes more difficult to obtain additional GS without diminishing the “easier” to attain levels. This is to combat mainly how the game operates and awards XP. As you fight higher level creatures, you simply gain more and more XP.

Additionally, GS earned at lower levels is “worth” more proportionally in terms of statistical advantage. Going from a (0) GS creature to a (10) GS creature is pretty massive; but going from a (900) GS creature to a (910) GS creature isn’t so impacting. In the latter case, a higher level player would hold off breeding at the lower creature levels because it wouldn’t be worth it (in terms of power/ritual/resource expense). It’s also vastly easier for a higher level player to reach higher creature levels quicker.

I’ve stated some counterpoints in the shoutbox before, but I’m reposting them here so they’re easier to find.

(And before I mention anything, I agree 200% is probably still too high - 33-100% is probably better, but I and others need to test 0.5.0 before anything else.)

I prefer the mage level based one currently, personally, since it has a few useful points. It’s very fast for low level players, as they can get their creatures off the ground without too much worrying about having to level up their creatures - even level 50 can be a monumental task for a new player who hasn’t gotten a good team set up yet. It also gives you a quick ramp-up to your “soft cap”, making it easier to catch up all 5 non-nethers in your party (and breeding more than 1 creature is a lot more important now).

My primary issues with this idea are mainly in the numbers rather than the idea behind it, but there are a few things I disagree with. First off, while you do get more and more experience the deeper you go, you gain less levels per enemy level. This does mean you can level up low level creatures to a higher level in only a few battles, but it will still take higher and higher levels to increase your gains.

My other problem is it is more of a theoretical problem, as I haven’t seen this firsthand - while getting +100 gene strength per breeding session may be broken at realm level 50, at realm level 1000, it’s likely nothing. While it should get more difficult the deeper you go, and Siralim is a game that at its heart is about the grind, even the best and most efficient teams will start needing to spend hours and hours breeding and grinding just to go one realm level deeper because enemies will be going up thousands of levels and gene strength at a time. But if your average breeding is +30 at realm level 80, and something like +100 at realm level 1000, it’s not really going to help.

I still agree with the fact the 2nd creature is mostly meaningless right now, and there should be some way to make the 2nd parent’s gene strength matter more in the equation. These points aren’t intended to be argumentative, more to give a counterpoint and another view on the balance issues that gene strength does have. :slight_smile:

I think what you’re suggesting is too low.

Some people want to get to the 1000s in realm levels.

Gaining creature levels is not that fast, and breeding for very small amount of gene strength would just be a time consuming chore, especially when you factor in that you would have to complete several time consuming rituals for higher level breeding as well as maintaining a steady income of resources just so your monsters are almost on par with your highest realm level.

Not every consumer is going to play this game with the intention of playing for 1000s of hours, people feel more addicted to this game when they feel they are either powerful or clever with their gaming decisions. They will feel more bored with the game if the path of power became a chore of repetition.

If you want more of a challenge then I think something like Nether realms should be re-worked, something like a realm where player vs enemy stats are irrelevant but is still difficult due to enemy team design or something.

Be capped only by mage lvl just fast fix - for sure Zack change it later.

Im still sure breeding is a casual option, coz it give u power for non-brain spam “E” with almost any creature. Until u reach certain realm. And then… u can have 1kkk gene creature, enemy overhelm u and u lose, coz “E” didnt work anymore. So as for me, i dont care about any changes with this system, im just give up on it, delete all gene creatures and now will try build +0 gene team, which maybe abuse some traits, but atleast based on synergy and research, its much more fun and competitive.

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[quote=“theluxx, post:3, topic:2078”]I think what you’re suggesting is too low.

Some people want to get to the 1000s in realm levels.

Not every consumer is going to play this game with the intention of playing for 1000s of hours, people feel more addicted to this game when they feel they are either powerful or clever with their gaming decisions. They will feel more bored with the game if the path of power became a chore of repetition.[/quote]

So it isn’t at all clear to me how deep someone “should” be able to go with a modest (i.e., not 1000s of hours) time investment.

It isn’t clear to me whether Realm 2000 is a reasonable goal for most players? or if the game is intended to be balanced so that Realm 200 is as far as most players go.

Also, I think there is a difficult trade off here. If Gene Strength is too easy to get than party composition early/mid game doesn’t matter much because one can easily power through by grinding more Gene Strength … On the other hand, if Gene Strength is too hard to acquire then one quickly reaches a wall (even with an optimized team) that can only be overcome with huge amounts of tedious grinding.

Intuitively, it seems like incorporating mage level into the formula is a good direction, but I have no idea what the formula should ultimately look like.

I feel like the expected time investments should be compared to a game like Disgaea, like how long it takes to get every trophy in the more recent games vs just completing the main story. I would compare getting the very high level achievements like realm level 1000 comparable to completing all of the postgame battles in one of those games, so about 200-400 hours. While completing the main story (realm 40) being around 20-40.