[Guide]Nether orbs and you

This guide is meant to provide in depth information into the creation of nether orbs.

[size=12pt]1) Information about nether orbs in game[/size]
The in game tutorial (called Castle Quests) teaches you the basics of creating nether orbs. During the tutorial you are given a red orb with 5 activations and 15 gems. Further information about nether creatures can be found in the back of the library (rightmost shelf of the four adjecent bookshelves).

[size=12pt]2) Enchantments[/size]
There are 5 different enchantment categories tied to nether orbs: Diamond, Emerald, Ruby, Sapphire and Topaz. Each of these categories is tied to specific creature stats:
Diamond - increases experience gain
Emerald - increases creature attack
Ruby - increases health
Sapphire - increases defenses
Topaz - increases speed and luck

[size=12pt]3) Colors[/size]
Each orb has a specific color. The color determines which category is strong and which one is weak. The strong category gets a bonus of 50% and the weak category only has 50% strength.

Nether orbs come in the following colors (Strong/Weak)
Black : Topaz/Diamond
Blue: Sapphire/Diamond
Green: Emerald/Ruby
Indigo: Sapphire/Emerald
Orange: Diamond/Topaz
Pink: Ruby/Sapphire
Red: Ruby/Emerald
Violet: Emerald/Topaz
White: Diamond/Sapphire
Yellow: Topaz/Emerald

[size=12pt]4) Gems[/size]
Each orb supports a certain number of gems: Normal orbs have 15-30 gems, imbued orbs 30-40. Gems can be enchanted with Diamond, Emerald, Ruby, Sapphire and Topaz and range from level 1 to 10. Gems can be enchanted and leveled at the Gem Altar in the top right wing of Siralim. Always use level 10 gems for your nether orbs! There is no downside to a level 10 gem compared to a lower level one and it will make your nether creature stronger.
Level 10 gems have the following effect:
Diamond: 18% increased experience
Emerald: 2.55 increased attack
Ruby: 2.55 increased health
Sapphire: 2.55 increased defenses
Topaz: 3 increased luck and speed
Multiple gems are added together and multiplied by a factor based on orb activations.

[size=12pt]5) Activations[/size]
Orbs have a random number of activations: normal orbs have 5-10 and imbued nether orbs 10-15. Each activation slot can be used for any enchantment category. The more activations are used for one category, the higher the multiplier for gems get. Activations have diminishing returns the more activations are used for a specific color.
Activations create the following multiplier for gems (activations denoted with ? are guesswork but would follow the pattern)
1 : 1
2 : 1.5
3 : 2
4 : 2.25
5 : 2.5
6 : 2.75
7 : 3
8 : 3.15
9 : 3.3
10 : 3.45 ?
11 : 3.6 ?
12 : 3.75 ?
13 : 3.9 ?
14 : 4 ?
15 : 4.1 ?

[size=12pt]6) Nether demon[/size]
When you have Demon Dust in your inventory the Nether Creator will ask you if you want to use it during the creation process. Saying yes will give a chance that the egg becomes tainted (in a good way). The Nether Creator will be quite upset about it but there are no negative consequences.
When the egg is returned to the Hatchery, a nether demon will hatch from it once the ritual is completed.
Nether demons are more powerful nether creatures and have the following differences to normal nethers:

[ul][li]25% increased stats (even those not increased by activations/gems[/li]
[li]a different color[/li]
[li]a random second ability[/li][/ul]

The random ability can be rerolled with Demonic Tomes bought by Bynine.

[size=12pt]7) Example[/size]
Lets use the tutorial orb as an example. If you follow the instructions during the tutorial your orb will look like this:

Red Orb (Strong in ruby, weak in Emerald)
1 diamond activation with 3 gems
1 emerald activation with 3 gems
1 ruby activation with 3 gems
1 sapphire activation with 3 gems
1 topaz activation with 3 gems

The nether will have the following increased stats compared to its normal version:
118%3 = 54% increased experience gain
1
2.55
30.5 = 3.825 increased attack (emerald got reduced to 50% because it is this orb’s weak color)
1
2.5531.5 = 11.475 increased health (ruby got increased by 50% because it is the strong color)
12.553 = 7.65 increased defenses
133 = 9 increased speed and luck

[size=12pt]8 ) Remarks[/size]

[ul][li]the number 2.55 for single gems is the best approximation using large numbers of gems for a single color. The resulting stat should be correct with error +/-1[/li]
[li]this guide was written for Siralim version 2.0.19[/li]
[li]I will try to keep this guide up to date should anything change[/li][/ul]

[size=12pt]9) Version history[/size]
1.0.0 (2015/05/13) - initial version
1.1.0 (2015/05/14) - added example and version section
1.1.1 (2015/05/14) - corrected gem number in example and gem altar location

Kejal: Thanks for a great guide. Everything you do for this community is incredible!

If I understood correctly, each gem gives an additive bonus to a creature’s stat. Therefore, if I wasn’t too make (say) a high health creature and use a lot of emeralds and associated activations, then it doesn’t really matter what the attack was for the base creature type that I used. That is, I could use an attack 25 creature or an attack 40 creature and it wouldn’t really matter … if I used enough emeralds then I get a Nether creature with super high attack.

Yes, the difference in attack would always be 15. At base level 25 and 40 and with a good orb 325 and 340.

I applaud this guide, and you.

Kejal being an hero. Nice guide ^_^.

So if I’m reading this right, the diminishing returns are all on the activations, and not the gems, yeah? Interesting information for folks planning their nethers.

If the Demon Dust works, will the egg have a different name when I receive it, or do I have to go through the entire ritual before I find out if I made a Nether Demon or not?

4 tries and counting for a Wicked Carver Nether Demon, no luck so far :frowning:

The Nether Creator will tell you if it will turn into a demon or not. After you confirm the egg’s creation he will either respond with a “Well done” or an “How awful” before handing you the egg. In the second case it will turn into a demon.

Thanks for the guide!

I have two questions:

[ol][li]Are the Nether Demon bonus abilities copied by shapeshifters?[/li]
[li]As a Nether creature levels up, do its enhanced stats scale any faster than normal? Or is a 15 point difference always a 15 point difference when compared to a non-nether creature of the same level?[/li][/ol]

Thanks again.

[quote=“Astaerus, post:9, topic:856”][ol][li]Are the Nether Demon bonus abilities copied by shapeshifters?[/li]
[li]As a Nether creature levels up, do its enhanced stats scale any faster than normal? Or is a 15 point difference always a 15 point difference when compared to a non-nether creature of the same level?[/li][/ol][/quote]

  1. Nether Demon bonus abilities are NOT copied by shapeshifters. (I haven’t tested this recently, but I am 99% sure this is still true)

  2. Every time a creature levels up, it gains a bonus to each stat equal to 20% of the stat’s base (level 1) value. So if a creature has a base attack stat of 30, it gains 6 extra attack each level. If a Nether creature has a base attack stat of 100 then it will gain 20 attack each level. (Note: Pills are very good for the same reason – they modify a creature’s base stats and thus affect the amount a stat improves each level)

This is a great guide, and has simplified the process for me immensely, but I still have a few questions regarding the overall strategy of making good nether orbs.

So let’s say I just want to make a beast defensive nether, obviously I take the appropriate orb, but for gems and activations, is there a point where you can stack too many either blue gems or activations? Is it better to simply rely on the Orb’s inherent bonus than to say put 9 blue gems on it?

Can you gimp yourself if you go all in on one attribute too much?

And full disclosure, the reason I ask this is that I just made a Stronghold with 7 Blue Activations and about 11 Blue Gems. I am wondering if this guy is going to be a problem. Though, damn is his defense high!

If you intent to maximize stat points the most effective use of gems is to put everything into one color.
With your example: 7 blue activations on a blue orb give a multiplier of 4.5.
For the sake of argument lets say you had a free activation for any other color. You still would be better off putting all 11 gems into blue because each gems value is multiplied by 4.5 and the gem for the other color would only be worth one point.

This only considers getting the maximum value for each gem. If you prefer more balanced stats to maximum power you would need to spread activations around. Just be aware that a specialized nether actually has more total stats than a balanced one (and consider not investing in diamond. Enemies scale to your level anyway and you have to pull gems from stat categories to increase it)

You can never go overboard on gems, but you can on activations. Activations have fairly extreme diminishing returns. Gems never do, they always stay the same.

There’s a few strategies to go with:

Absolute specialist: This works well in a lot of cases. Especially with attack because of how the attack/defense calculation goes. But also any other time you’re using a skill that specifically calls for a stat as your main strategy for that creature.

Higher level specialist: There are good things and bad things about your creatures being high level. Usually you can work out being higher level to your advantage. If you have an orb with more than 10 activations, this is a good way to go. As an example, I had a 35/14 orb. I split the activations 7/7 emerald and diamond, but the gems 30 emerald/5 diamond. Activations should always be split more evenly than the gems you want to specialize with.

Jack of all trades: Splitting your orbs into 3 or 4 categories is usually mathematically best for the stats (with 3 activations each being a sweet spot). However in practice, most teams should specialize. You still can make a good nether that has all pretty good stats, and even a whole team of them, but it will be harder to thrive than with a specialist team.

Of course, there’s always exceptions to the rule. You may find a weird combination that works particularly well for one type of creature (the skill that adds your speed to both luck and HP comes to mind). But using the few ideas above is a quick way to make good nethers.

[quote=“Kejal, post:12, topic:856”]If you intent to maximize stat points the most effective use of gems is to put everything into one color.
With your example: 7 blue activations on a blue orb give a multiplier of 4.5.
For the sake of argument lets say you had a free activation for any other color. You still would be better off putting all 11 gems into blue because each gems value is multiplied by 4.5 and the gem for the other color would only be worth one point.

This only considers getting the maximum value for each gem. If you prefer more balanced stats to maximum power you would need to spread activations around. Just be aware that a specialized nether actually has more total stats than a balanced one (and consider not investing in diamond. Enemies scale to your level anyway and you have to pull gems from stat categories to increase it)[/quote]

Kejal, would you recommend a balanced stat loadout for a tank (split between HP and DEF, with whichever color the orb boosts getting more gems), or just oure HP/DEF?

Generally I seem to find HP more useful than DEF, unless I have stat-based abilities which trigger off DEF (e.g. refraction), as past a certain realm level most direct attacks are 1HKO anyway without damage mitigation (and damage mitigation abilities mostly don’t care about DEF), while high HP lets me survive indirect damage sources and tank out DoTS for a turn or two without wasting a dispel.

This may be a function of my playstyle though, so I’m quite curious about what other people think instead.

It really depends on the tank but I usually do not mix them.
I do not invest in defense except the tank has a defense gimmick like Amaranthine or Autumn Aspect (then I go all in). Defense starts out as the best survival stat as long as you can match enemies attack, but is soon eclipsed by pure health when the level difference between you and the enemy increases because health might let you survive some random debuff or spell.

Has anyone done the math on splashing in a few diamond gems and activations? Of course the creature will be weaker at any given level than if you hadn’t, but if it’s getting, say, 190% extra experience from 5 gems and 3 activations, will it always be enough ahead on levels that it ends up being worthwhile?

Yes. Diamonds always effectively make the creature weaker, unfortunately, with the possible exception of Paranormal Slimes (since they steal enemy stats anyways).

I must not be reading the numbers correctly. I have a nether brim smith with 17 level 10 yellow gems, topaz orb, 5 topaz activations. That means I should get 3171.5*2.5 = 190 or so speed/luck per level? Or does it mean he had 190 added to his base? Do stats grow as a % of the base? And if I give a creature a pill, does it retroactively apply stats or only going forward?

Its added to his base, they grow with 20% of their base / level iirc.

Pills are retroactive.