Lance Math is Wrong

Lance bonus damage is still wrong.

I tested this as scientifically as possible and no matter how I set things up, lances consistently yield right around 4x damage ± a few points.

Example:

I have used a potion of reset and discarded all of my cards.

My party is as follows:

2 firewound angels, 1 with a blank lance, one with nothing
1 wind salamander

Stats for Angels

34 health
28 mana
22 attack
16 intelligence
22 defense
16 speed

Stats for salamander

5702 hp (equipped a blank armor)
32 mana
12 attack
24 intelligence
12 defense
24 speed

Results are consistently as follows with no crits:

Firewound angel with lance hits salamander for 132 damage
Firewound angel without lance hits salamandder for 33 damage

salamander is not defending.

I have also tested this (and reported) various abilities such as pyromancer’s trait dealing 4x damage with lances.

my guess is the damage is multiplied, then the enemy defense reduces the damage.

Correct.

Just re-checked everything to make sure the math is right on lances and everything looks good.

[quote=“Zack, post:3, topic:3211”]

Correct.

Just re-checked everything to make sure the math is right on lances and everything looks good.[/quote]

So are you saying that given the numbers and creatures I present here, that 132 vs 33 is correct? I’d LOVE for you to break that calculation down for me so I don’t post similar issues incorrectly if I am mistaken. 132 is exactly 4x 33…

I am 99% certain that lances are calculated AFTER defense and are yielding 4x, not 2x damage.

It is worth noting that I have tested several other situations as well, a few of which are as follows.

Example 1:

Swapping out a level 2 bastion in place of the level 2 salamander, and BOTH angels dealt 0 damage to it with the higher defense. This would seem to indicate that lances are calculating AFTER defense, not before. A level 2 bastion has 34 defense.

Example 2:

Djin Pyromancer deals 10% of its intelligence to all enemies when an ally casts a spell. This consistently deals 4x damage vs ‘lanced’ targets instead of 2x. It also ignores defense.

Example 3:

Same thing with Live to Labor, confirmed a few minutes ago. 821 damage vs 3,284 damage on ‘lanced’ targets, exactly 4x.

Example 4:

Equipped a creature with a lance with a large amount of + attack on it. Killed some stuff at level 1 realm depth. 4x damage vs ‘lanced’ targets. (approximate in this case since I can’t see enemy stats, and they have near 0 defense anyway)

If the math seems right under the hood, it may be something systemic is wrong here, and you’re getting an extra x2 somewhere not specific to the lances (the main reason to investigate this). Also worth investigating if your intent was for lances to be calculated before defense, because that seems not to be the case.

that would certainly seem to be a 4x multiple

Sounds to me like the lance bonus is being applied twice, rather than once.

That does seem like the most likely cause, but who knows.

The most interesting part of this for me has actually been discovering that lance bonuses are applied after attack/defense calculation. Rather than helping you break high defense, you just deal more damage vs targets already vulnerable to your attacks. This makes them much less useful than many assume.

If other bonuses work the same way, that means crazy high multipliers like multiple sources of 300% will either deal 0 damage or 1 shot things, unless you use something that ignores defense.