modification and uniqueness in rpg

there’s two sides to rpg characters/creatures:

  1. the classic final fantasy system, where jobs & spells & some equipment are unique to a character and you’re locked into a role. unique but one-dimensional arguably.

  2. you can make your character into anything: gain access to multiple class skills & equipment etc., a western rpg / modern final fantasy approach. allows freedom but may make characters feel generic

Siralim 3 has ventured further into the second category: you can change creature’s classes & spell gem classes now, which synergizes well with many many traits.

I dislike this change because the complete lack of restrictions makes team-building less creative, not moreso. creatures might as well not even have classes anymore, nor spell gems (losing one enchantment slot isn’t a big deal). previously, if you wanted a certain creature, you had to commit to its class affecting your team setup and its unique access (or lack of) to spell gems of its own class required additional thought.

certain spells are clearly better than others/fit niches (homing arrow ignoring 100% defense, life’s resurrection spells etc) and now everyone can equip everything.
no longer do you need to risk access to traits on artifacts
whose creature class wouldn’t fit your team since you can change creature class.

I dislike the perks that allow access to all spell gems (sorcery), and morphing to any class (nature) as well. makes creatures & spells feel very generic.

what do you think? would you find the game more challenging/fun if you had to work with more restrictions, or do you like the new basically classless creatures & spells?

I like this new Disgaea-like system much more.
I want the freedom to do anything that I want.
Games with unnecessary restrictions have already overflown the market.

Actually I do not get this point. Why does it make less creative? I can create infinite combos of creatures, traits, artifacts, artifact traits, perks and now even spell gems ans class changes.
Isn’t a Death creature that belongs to Life unique? You will never find this in the realms.

Restrictions also restrict your possibilities and therefore creativity.

Well, yeah but tell me a RPG where all spells are similar useful - maybe Divinity Original Sin 2, that’s it. Did you really use Fire 1 when you had access to Fire 2 or Ultima or Beta in FF7?
In FF10 if you maximized Spherogrid every character had the same stats.

That what is called uniqueness in classic RPG is often just a ruse. Every player is going to do the same thing, using the same skills against a certain enemy, having the same equipment, experiencing the same story - some details may vary, of course . Yes, these games are not generic but the ones who play them are likely.
Yes, Siralim 3 seems or is generic, but the masterminds behind the monitor are definitely unique - especially that one guy developing the game 8).
Moreover you compare Siralim with rpgs where characters really exist with backstory, quirks and a personality. Siralim was never intended to have such.

If I want to change class I have to sacrifice strength and weakness of the class, if I want to bend the spell gems I have to live with higher mana cost.
For example that resurrection spells you mentioned. Some people want full revive, some people don’t have the mana for it and want medium, I want low revive so that my reaper can kill the creatures again and again > this’ I call unique high-level-strategy;D

Furthermore please do not forget that it isn’t as easy as we talk about it.
Change class? cool, but how long does it take to get six seeds you wished for (maybe with Luna it is faster but still…)?
Every trait on any artifact? Nice, where do I get my specific trait material? Knives? And where do I get them?

And by the way you can restrict yourself with CJ, Luna and well yourself ;D - nobody forces you to change class or spell gem or use 4 different resurrection spells.
Do as you wish and make your Magi and team unique from other players and show it to us in future tavern brawls - not that you can take on my stat killer or mana bomb paragon team :stuck_out_tongue:
And wait till I find Antagonizer and Doomsday recipe :wink:

Ultimately everything you wrote down ist so true, however, restrict the game and see what remains:

  • Useless creatures because of stats and not so useful traits
  • Spells that cannot be utilized pretty well because of class and int stat
  • Still no excessive roleplay since this wasn’t core during development
  • And last but not least: Everyone would run the same or similar setup 'cause some creature do are better than others and some spell do are stronger then the rest.

posting from mobile so excuse the lack of elegant quoting please!

  1. working within certain restrictions forces you to find creative solutions. if you don’t have access to resurrection spells for example, you’ll need a different way to come back from the dead. if (nearly) all solutions are available to every party/class composition, you’ll just pick the best one and are never forced to adapt.

a good example of restrictions making for creative & tense gameplay are the itherian realms - now you can’t use that nether, or spells, or nature creatures etc.

  1. I didn’t make this clear, but I’m comparing S3 to S1&2 actually, where you couldn’t change the classes of everything. S3 feels like creatures have less of an identity to me. No longer is a creature associated with it’s class. That skeleton is now a life creature, the peaceful angel now a chaos creature.

  2. eventually you’ll have an abundance of all the items, except for pills of upgrading & gene boosts.

Hi again,

ahh okay now I get your point regarding restrictions & creativity - yes, I think it’s true: The more restrictions the more you have to think about your strategy and use of resources.

I also agree that the creatures have (a little bit) less identity - that is also why some people don’t care about singularities, it is only a recolor. On the other hand it is easier to deactivate the artifact traits than the innate traits. So it is worth a consideration if you want a specific trait either by creature or artifact.

Maybe we both can come along if we say it like that:
Both forms are fun to play but the fun comes from a different source.
I love classic RPG - western, JRPG, aRPG, Sous like, whatever - it is exactly as you say, maybe a little one dimensional but if have to fine tune my build and resources.
If I succeed to overcome a strong enemy with it I am super happy.

But I am also super happy with S3:
Theorycrafting a certain strategy/synergy without restriction> looking at inventory what do I really have > adapt my theory the best I can with my current resources > visit Itherian > seeing “Hex” > nooooo > the battle starts > Arcadia sin > noooo² > some stupid enemy one shots my key creature > Necromancy triggers > thank you gamer god > I use a backup strategy to get the battle under control > it seems to work > battle is won, only Saia survived because of her massive stat bonus > I got some cool loot > fun³ incoming :wink:

I really love games like FF15, 6, 7 , 13-2, Wild Arms, Breath of Fire - the classic ones
but
Disgaea 5, Darkest Dungeon, Siralim 3 and my all time favorite Xenoblade Chronicles X really overwhelmed me with their different, unique, unconventional and controversial freedom-of-choice-approach of being a RPG