New Player Feedback

Hey Zack,

Thought I’d give you some feedback since you’re doing balance changes and over the last few days I’ve played quite a lot. I’m basically in love with the game concept and think its a ton of fun, I just have some suggested changes to make it better.

All of my feedback is on version 2.0.13, though the first 20 or so player levels were 2.0.9… I am around player level 100 now, can give you exact stats and game details if you need it later.

I’m playing with random monster mode on so the progression might be a little different for me. I invested heavily in power balance, maxed minor sigil loot and mission loot, and put 5-10 points into the other loot related stuff.

In general, there are way too many items. It’s not overwhelming for me personally but the sheer volume feels unnecessary. I don’t really get excited for anything that drops other than a new legendary material I can combo off of (and I have duplicates). Details below

Consumables: Way too many of them. Pocket dumpling feels like a band-aid to a (still) extreme excess of consumables and no way to really use them. I’d say there needs to be far, far fewer of these or a way to actually use them up. I’m not even running out of a particular type very fast if I spam that one type before sigils. I’ll never run out unless I do only sigils and use only 1 type of consumable, and there are a ton of types!

Sigils: Minor sigils are a common drop, and completing a sigil often drops more sigils. Result? Near infinite sigils. Major sigils aren’t as common, but they are super easy to get when I have hundreds of minor sigils.

I’d suggest making major sigils exclusive loot from minor sigils, and minor sigils drop far less (and not from other sigils). Which brings me to my next point!

Cores: So, many, cores. I don’t extract anything, I just have hundreds of these things from chests, bounties, destructibles etc. They would be useful in making minor sigils, but I have endless minor sigils so who cares!

Also, I have to say I don’t detect any real difference between major and minor sigils. I play mostly between level 7 and 10 with an okish team of normal monsters. Basically brim smith and dark brim smiths in front row with supports in back. If I venture further I die, but if I stay between these levels, minor and major sigils are a breeze, and essentially the same level of difficulty.

Legendary crafting material: I have I think 30 or so of these after burning some of my major sigils. On level 7 I get a crafting material every attempt. The rarity of the loot is not especially legendary nor the difficulty in acquiring it!

Nether orbs: I think I have 5-6 imbued and 10-15 normals, and I still haven’t leveled up enough gems to use one of the orbs (I don’t have a nether yet). I had an imbued orb pretty early on so the in game person who says they are “incredibly rare” seems to be mistaken.

The one caveat here is that about 25% of my 200ish duties I completed with tickets beyond the depth I could normally complete. I did get some good stuff and lots of xp that way, but the majority of my loot is from normal play in 7-10 clearing maps.

The main gripe I guess is just that items are super overabundant to the point where I don’t care when I find something (because I already have a bunch of them) and I’m not particularly deep in the dungeon yet. The vast majority of items I find I don’t even have a way to use up.

Things I’m concerned with at this point in play: Finding legendary materials I don’t have yet to play with, finding pills, finding demon dusts, leveling up gems. Gem leveling is dramatically outpaced by the drop rate on nether obs so I don’t care about those, they are pretty much garbage drops.

As far as gameplay, battles are fun and inching my way further into the levels is really compelling. There’s always something to be improved and limited resources to do so. Resources feel pretty tight in general and I think that system is well designed.

There are some standout abilities that are just incredibly powerful. In particular, things that make you always go first, things that insta kill, things that work off of percentages rather than stats and let’s not forget things that basically prevent your creatures from dying (that one mite guy that comes back with 1 hp is just ridiculous).

The gem system is super tedious and I really dislike it. I also think it takes too long to get the gem levels you need for an orb. I’ve been working on a “mouth of hell” since I got my first orb, and now I have 1 1/2 pages of orbs and am not done leveling the gems yet. I have a very detailed suggestion of a system overhaul if you’re receptive to that sort of feedback. https://forums.thylacinestudios.com/t/724

Nothing else really comes to mind, great game. Keep up the good work!

I just want to mention that the droprate for nether orbs should outpace the gem-leveling. Because you want specific orb colours, not all of them will fit your needs at any time. As an examle, Ive gotten around 10 orbs, but only 1(!) of them boosted green gems. :slight_smile:

Thank you for the thorough feedback!

It seems that the bulk of your concern has to do with the high item drop rate, and this is something that has actually been adjusted in a recent patch. Further adjustments to the drop system were made, but that update is not yet available on iOS. The feedback on the updated loot system has received generally positive feedback, so I’d like to think we’re headed in the right direction even if we’re not there quite yet. For that reason, I am still eager to hear what people think about the quantity/quality of loot drops in the latest version of the game.

The issue you mentioned with abilities being too powerful is the current focus, and I’m very happy with the progress I’ve made on that so far. I think the game will feel much better at both low and high levels with the adjustments that are coming.

I’ll take a look at your gem suggestion soon and reply in that topic. Thanks again for being so thorough!

Hmmm… well now I see why you wanted an easier gem system. I might be the odd one out, but I have maybe 10 orbs, many of witch I won’t use with how I’m playing currently. Gems, on the other hand, I have over 20 pages full of them and all of them are at least level 8, some higher. (Most were 10, but pandemonium tokens don’t like me.) Gems are the breeze in my playthroughs and orbs are what I am looking to find more of for the ones I need.

[quote=“Zack, post:3, topic:725”]Thank you for the thorough feedback!

It seems that the bulk of your concern has to do with the high item drop rate, and this is something that has actually been adjusted in a recent patch. Further adjustments to the drop system were made, but that update is not yet available on iOS. The feedback on the updated loot system has received generally positive feedback, so I’d like to think we’re headed in the right direction even if we’re not there quite yet. For that reason, I am still eager to hear what people think about the quantity/quality of loot drops in the latest version of the game.

The issue you mentioned with abilities being too powerful is the current focus, and I’m very happy with the progress I’ve made on that so far. I think the game will feel much better at both low and high levels with the adjustments that are coming.

I’ll take a look at your gem suggestion soon and reply in that topic. Thanks again for being so thorough![/quote]

Happy to help! Note that my feedback is for the most recent version on iOS, 2.0.13. After switching from 2.0.9 to 2.0.13, I noticed an increase in loot rarity and less “garbage”, but theres still an overabundance of items in general (in my opinion).

The impression I’m getting on the forums is that I’m not ‘doing it right’. The efficient way to get nethers is as follows:

[ul][li]Buy all the creature gems you could ever want[/li]
[li]save up panda coins and find jeweler quest to level all gems at once[/li]
[li]don’t bother with gem boxes at all[/li]
[li]upgrade with jeweler to finish a set if necessary and you’re essence rich[/li]
[li]start 10 rituals at a time for gem coloring at the jeweler, begin sigil battles in front of jeweler, finish ritual in front of jeweler and start more rituals[/li][/ul]

There will always be ways to find broken and OP setups in any gameplay system. And this game is no exception. I have been experimenting with different teams, and while they seem overpowered, none of them are fully invincible. This game has an abundant of OP abilities, but there are many that can counter them as pointed out to me by other members. An example would be a Bone Reaper who negates any ability that activates on death like the Mite Gravedigger and Thunderstruck Phoenix. Or the every annoying Frenzy Ghoul, the bane of tanks. He prevents your creatures from provoking/defending stuffing the likes of cloak and dagger, steadfast resilience, celestial furnace, death beckons, toxic thorns, etc. There are even abilities that reflect damage back to the attacker, which my Attack/Damage heavy Brim Smith found out the hard way.

Gameplay wise I love the system. There are abilities that could require some re-balancing, but nothing too major that it takes too much away from the creatures play style. And I am on board with the overabundant amount of items (I am overloaded and scrolls, and I rarely use spells). I have suggested the option to exchange unwanted items for resources.

[quote=“mtc1031, post:7, topic:725”]

There will always be ways to find broken and OP setups in any gameplay system. And this game is no exception. I have been experimenting with different teams, and while they seem overpowered, none of them are fully invincible. This game has an abundant of OP abilities, but there are many that can counter them as pointed out to me by other members. An example would be a Bone Reaper who negates any ability that activates on death like the Mite Gravedigger and Thunderstruck Phoenix. Or the every annoying Frenzy Ghoul, the bane of tanks. He prevents your creatures from provoking/defending stuffing the likes of cloak and dagger, steadfast resilience, celestial furnace, death beckons, toxic thorns, etc. There are even abilities that reflect damage back to the attacker, which my Attack/Damage heavy Brim Smith found out the hard way.

Gameplay wise I love the system. There are abilities that could require some re-balancing, but nothing too major that it takes too much away from the creatures play style. And I am on board with the overabundant amount of items (I am overloaded and scrolls, and I rarely use spells). I have suggested the option to exchange unwanted items for resources.[/quote]

Yeah I like the system a lot too. I think the concern is mostly that some abilites you can’t do without. The strongest of which is of course the topaz gem. Who cares about speed? Go first forever. Also if the game can’t kill you unless you fight 1 specific enemy out of 329, I’d say that ability is in need of some tuning, personally.

I think the main reason why Topaz Attunement is so powerful is because it combos with other abilities that are already extremely overpowered, such as Resin and Crawl Through Knives. I’m not too keen on nerfing Topaz Attunement just yet, but we’ll see how things go after the next ability retune. I’m planning to release the next patch tomorrow and I’m really happy with the way things are looking now.

Woo patch tomorrow! I’m going to have to wait like a week on iOS though. Lol

Nice, looking forward to checking out the abilities that have gotten changed :smiley:

Very excited to hear that there is likely a patch tomorrow with some ability adjustments! I greatly appreciate the developer engagement with the community and the frequent game updates.

@winsomniak - Topaz ranks in my top 5 easily. Probably #2 just after Resin, but that’s only due to my personal bias. And as much as I hate to admit it, I do agree it needs to get nerfed.

I personally would keep it the way it is and just take away the one turn critical perk. Other suggestions would be maybe to apply topaz to only the top 3 or 4 members in terms of speed. The remainder would have their spot on the action queue dictated by how it compared to the enemy. Granted you could make everyone go first if everyone has higher speed than the enemy. But at least it gives the player an incentive to use speed enchantments on their artifacts.

I found the most time and sanity preserving way to deal with gems in endgame is the following (only works once you have stockpiled huge amounts of essence like > 10 million):

  1. Decide on a creature and orb and create the appropriate number of gems
  2. Drop any other creature gems you have and do not touch gem piles in grassland realms
  3. use gem boxes on your lowest gems
  4. Once you meet the Nether Creator, port to Siralim and upgrade all gems to level 10
  5. Start as many color rituals as possible and use shards/sigils to complete them on the spot
  6. Talk to the Nether Creator and create the egg

Gemsanity:

  1. Fully upgrade gem temple, some gems will start at levels 4-6.
  2. Create gems for all creatures you want to nether until you have 40+ level 4-6 gems.
  3. Climb realms looking for the gem temple quest.
    a) Keep your power balance up by battling sigils.
    b) Use the resulting energy to enchant the orbs and gems.
  4. If your orbs and gems are ready…
    a) If you encounter the nether creator…
    i. If you have Demon Dust…
    o Enchant remaining gems <10 up to full power using essence at the gem temple.
    o Apply Demon Dust.
    o Create nether egg.